So, when did you start breaking? How old were you?
I was 15. So, 1983. Yeah, the beginning of 1983.
When was the first time you ever saw breaking?
It was at the park 99th street in Manhattan. At the park watching Kenny aka Ken Swift, my brother Andy, Doze and everybody who was hanging out because there were so many people, I mean all the boys that hung out there. Everybody that was hanging out would do something, it wasn't just breaking, all kinds of dancing. a mix of popping and locking, boogie, freestyle dance, up rocking, breaking. So, it was just a combination of everything.
Oh, your brother was breaking too?
Yes. My brother Andy was breaking, Ken Swift, Doze, and others. So, a different group than the Rock Steady Crew you saw in the 1980s traveling, because Rock Steady Crew was big. Many chapters, many divisions, but then you had the six of us who traveled, I like to say at that time we were the commercial Rock Steady Crew who went around, traveled, and released a record and toured the world.
It's kind of interesting because when I started seeing Ken and some of them break, they weren't Rock Steady crew yet. They were the Young City Boys. When Crazy Legs came around, the transformation started, and next thing you know, it's a mix of Young City Boys and Rock Steady. At some point during the transition, the park where we all hung out was referred to as the Rock Steady Park.
What part of the city did you live in?
We grew up in the Upper West Side in the nineties. I grew up between 95th and 96th on Amsterdam and Kenny and Doze grew up between 97th and 98th on Amsterdam, as well. And then the park was on 99th Street. There was an elementary school, and the park was part of that elementary school, but it also had tables for people to play cards, chess, dominoes. lots of people hung out there. They had handball courts…eventually it became the Rock Steady Park and it's where they did the Rock Steady reunion every year. So that's where I grew up. And that's where Kenny and Doze grew up, my brother and then other people, Lady Rock, Lady Doze, so many other girls just hung out there, but we all grew up in the same area.
Did you do any other types of dances?
I did. I danced flamenco for many years with Ballet Hispanico, which was owned by Tina Ramirez, one of the famous flamenco dancers in the world. And I did that for many years, and I did a little bit of ballet. It wasn't quite my thing, but I loved it. I did a little bit of jazz and I love that too. And before going into breaking a lot of freestyle dances, the Hustle, something, back in the day, they used to call the Webo dance. I didn’t care what I was doing at that point. I just knew I wanted to dance. I loved dancing so, so much. And still do today, my girlfriends always say, Daisy's the dancing queen. The dance floor could be empty, and I would be the only one on the dance floor. I think after doing all of that (dancing) growing up, that breaking was just part of the evolution. It came naturally to want to try to break. I saw my brother doing it. I saw Kenny doing it. All the boys doing it. I just wanted to do it, and I tried, and it just felt right.
In one interview you said when you came up with the Baby Love move you incorporated salsa, did you ever use your other dance styles when you danced?
Whenever I was doing the up-rock part, I always included Salsa and Merengue because you can't help it. It's like when you're there, you just start doing freestyle stuff. And then when I was doing my footwork, if you look at the beat street scene, and when you think about Salsa, you're thinking about how you're just moving your hips. And the whole point of that was moving my hips back and forth and that was probably the only thing I had incorporated to kind of change my footwork. But when you did your up-rock move before you went down, I would do whatever would come to mind. Sometimes it made no sense Mantis, but it felt good to me.
It came naturally to want to try to break. I saw my brother doing it. I saw Kenny doing it. All the boys doing it. I just wanted to do it, and I tried, and it just felt right.
I have to say, there were times when we were traveling, I would perform, I always felt like I had to repeat the same moves because I wasn't doing head spins and windmills, etc. I wasn't doing those types of moves. Today, the traditional moves tend to take a backseat to all the new evolved break dancing moves you see today, from my observation and opinion. I’m old school…so for me I respect those moves because they were the foundation of breaking. This does not change how in awe I am with how far breaking has come. With everyone being creative and so talented – women and men in this community. I wish I was part of it today, My one regret. But yes, that was the only move I incorporated, and you could see it in a lot of my videos that's out there, and of course in Beat Street and that's it.
That moment in Beat Street, how did that feel? That must have been kind of intense or exciting. It looked like such a big circle. And there were two rows of B-boy on both sides. How did that feel to jump in?
It was scary. in my mind, I was like, okay, I'm going to go down. I'm going to do four up rock moves and then I'm going to go and get down and I'm going to do move. And I did none of that. But it was exciting to work on the movie and to meet a lot of people and be a part of something bigger than myself. I didn't have such a big scene in it, but it was my moment in time, and I treasured it. And it's how everybody got to know me too.
It's nice to have that as a memory in my toolbox of light, and I'll always treasure that. I don't have any regrets, Mantis, as far as the course of my life, I feel very blessed every single day. I really do. If I had to change, one thing was I wish I didn't run. I wish I would've stayed. I wish I would've stuck it out. I wish I would've taught more and helped women more. And I just wish I would've helped myself.
In the “Hey you” Rocksteady Crew music video there was a moment where you’re with a big group of girls and you all peek around a corner together, and I was wondering, were all those girls B-girls?
Some of those girls were just friends of others. Some of them were people that were there because this video was done really off the cuff. Yeah, it wasn't like a well thought out script. We gathered a lot of the people who would hang around the park. They were not break dancers or B-girls.
Lady Rock and Lady Doze were also in that video with you, were they also breaking?
Lady Doze didn't breakdance, but Lady Rock, Rosemary, she loved doing head spins. I can remember her doing heads. At that point, for me, it was just footwork. I was skinny as hell. I didn't venture to do anything that had to pick up my body, which is something, not that I didn't want to learn, but I was just focusing on learning how to do the footwork right and mastering that before moving on into anything else.
But to be honest with you, I had no support, no one taking me to the next level, teaching me. Part of me learning how to break was me watching. Because as a dancer, you can watch somebody do a move and then you do your count and you're like, okay, I can do this. And then I saw my brother, my brother would practice at home or practice with the boys and that would feed to me how to do things. And I just tried it, but I didn't have anyone take me under their wings and say, you know what? I'm going to teach you, Baby love, I’m going to teach you how to do this. No, that did not come. I got more criticism than support.
Did you and Lady Rock ever practice together?
No, we didn't. I mean, we would just meet at the park, and everybody would just dance. But it was never like, let's practice, let's come up with moves.
I don't think we thought that big because it was predominantly the boys dancing. In hindsight now, when I see you ladies, I'm like, oh man, I wish we would've done that. We would've taken it to the next level. But I don't even think we even thought about that, or at least I didn’t.
You said you guys would go to the park and practice. What was that like? did you all practice together or would the girls work on things on the side?
No, it was all together. Girls and boys didn't separate, we were just all mixed in and hanging out. there’s cardboard out and everybody's just dancing and hanging out – Mostly the boys breaking and lots of us watching. The RSC Park was a hangout for everybody, whether you were a B-boy, B-girl, it didn't matter. We were just hanging out there and breaking was just a piece of the pie, you know? It was our hangout park.
Sometimes we would just be sitting around listening to music, talking. Sometimes people were playing handball. Sometimes people would break and dance. It wasn't like we just went there to dance and cypher. It was coupled with so many different things. Some people would sit at the bench and drink. Some people would just go and do graffiti on the handball courts. The older people were playing dominos. It was a variety of things and breaking was a component for sure, but it wasn't just that. We didn't go there and say, okay, this is all we're going to do is break. Because not everybody that hung out there was breaking.
Were there any other girls that were around you that were also trying to get down or was it just the two of you?
Yeah, not in my immediate area. There wasn't a lot. I won't say that there wasn't out in the other boroughs, like in the Bronx. During my time I heard of Head Spin Janet, which I heard she was very good. I personally never had the privilege or honor to meet her and see her dance. I wish, because that could have been another avenue for support in the scene and potentially move it to the next level. But I did hear about her through Crazy Legs and others, but I never saw her.
You were a star at such a young age and going through all that, but doing it alone, I can't imagine who would be able to do that at 15 and still want to keep going. I can imagine It was very lonely
It was very lonely. I'm glad you mentioned that because traveling as beautiful as it sounds, right, I was very privileged and honored that I was able to travel as much as I did in such a short period of time and young age. Having a number one record in Europe, we received a gold and silver for it, be able to record an album, have all these experiences, and yet still be the loneliest person I could think of at that age. I would spend, hundreds of dollars just calling back home to speak with my mother and Lady Rock because I was lonely.
The boys - they really didn't talk to me much. They always spent time in their group.
And the only time we really spent time together was when we had to perform and maybe when we had to do interviews and sometimes when we had to do group dinners and that was it. Keep in mind, I still had to do schoolwork. I still had someone, a chaperone, with me. I was underage and I still had to get up in the morning to do my schoolwork so it can be submitted to my school in New York.
Having a number one record in Europe, we received a gold and silver for it, be able to record an album, have all these experiences, and yet still be the loneliest person I could think of at that age.
My life traveling was different than theirs. They didn't have that element and they had each other. Even when they fought, they had each other. Me, I just had me. I had no one to go to. And there were times, they did not, in my opinion, treat me well when we toured. I say this, not because I'm bad mouthing any of them, if anything I'm very grateful for the crew because they showed me that my worth does not come from them. And at 15 yrs. old, I thought it did. They’re not my only teachers, but they taught me that I needed to be strong. They taught me that I needed to be a fighter. They contributed to my growth as a woman. I can be whatever I wanted to be if I put my mind to it, hard work, and I did. I accomplished that over the course of my life, with my career in the corporate world, with my husband of 25 years, and my son.
I heard stories that some B-boys would go to other neighborhoods and battle. Did you ever hear stories about that?
Yes. I mean they did in all neighborhoods. We would go with them at times. We would travel to go to the different battles, but I'm going to speak for myself in those battles. You never saw a girl. I never saw a B-girl battle. It was always the boys. Even the big scene and battle on 66th Street (Lincoln center), you didn't see a girl. I was there, Lady Rock was there. We were all there. But who battles? It was the boys. It was about who's going to be strong enough to take that person out? We want to put the best on the floor to make that happen, and it makes sense, right?
How did you get your name? Did you give it to yourself or did someone else give it to you?
Oh no, I think it just came out, right? So, when I thought about it, I was the baby in the crew, and then love, why not? I love dancing. So, I just felt that adding those two things together was me. It just represented who I was. I was the baby and I just loved dancing. And I used to just say, I'm love, so why not? So that's how It came about.
What about the young city girls?
It was just a spinoff of young city boys. Yes. There was no rhyme or reason. It wasn't anything to do with creating a breakdancing group. It was just pure and organic evolution because we gathered all the time, as a crew.
Is there any advice you would give young dancers?
if there's one thing that I want this interview to give you, is know your worth, because your worth is not defined by any human being. It is defined by what you believe. For me, my belief is in Jesus Christ. So, my worth is defined by him and by what he gives me in hope, faith and grace. You know what I mean? And I think that as we move along with the evolution of women and breaking, if there's anything you could ever teach those beautiful young ladies, you are teaching them to know your worth for who you are. I don't want these young ladies to be defined by another B boy, by a man, a woman or anybody else, you know what I mean?
I love how women like you, Rokafella, Honey Rockwell, Aiko, Beta, Asia one. I would name them all if I could, but how you ladies have kept this movement alive. I always say I may have planted a seed, but you guys watered that seed and look where it is today. And it has everything to do with all the hard work that these ladies have done. And this is a dream I never dreamed of, but it sure came to fruition. Inspiration!
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